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It seems that a few people are being misinformed about the deprecation of the X11 backend, usually because they read screeds from well-known bad faith actors.
The X11 backend being deprecated mainly means that we're not going to spend time implementing new features, like dmabuf, graphics offloading, or Vulkan support. X11 support will still exist until GTK4 is EOL, which will happen once GTK *6* is released. We're talking about a 20 years horizon, at this point…
So, no: the sky is not falling. If you want to use X11, you will still be able to use GTK4 applications with it. You won't be able to use GTK5 applications, but those don't even exist yet.
Of course, somebody could show up tomorrow, and implement everything that the Wayland backend does, but for X11. We can always undeprecate things. We are not holding our breath, though…
@GTK Also, if there's really a X11 dev community left at that point people can implement a wrapper for basic functionality, even including accelerated graphics.
Running any Wayland compositor nested in a X11 session already gives you most of what you need - add a bit of integration and you should be fine, at least regarding features that are possible on X11.
@halva @GTK @rmader I had used Kepler GPU last year last time - and nouveau there were in same state as it was in 2015 I first time tried open-drivers - it unusable - even GTK-gnome theme-apps there rendered incorrectly and can crash randomly (runnin any video game - there like half of graphic missing).
For cases where you stuck to old Nvidia gpu - just get new Ryzen with integrated AMD - it very affordable(relative cheap) - it support wayland and have same or better(vega8+) performance.
@halva @GTK @rmader 20xx and never series - we can hope for NVK - NVK actually works now on any RTX GPU - it actually crazy - it can run most of modern games with no bugs at all.
NVK is actual miracle if you compare it to nouveau.
There no CUDA support - but it may be possible - there some work going to try to load compiled kernels, and nvidia have extension that allow it.
@GTK, well, I'll be using X11 for a while yet anyway (Xfce).
As for GTK4, well, there's this slight problem with it apparently enforcing client-side decorations – no. Server-side or get lost.
@GTK and that's probably what you should have publicly communicated from the beginning, instead of acting like it is not a big deal.
@GTK if you don't communicate, people will not be able to tell apart what's what. You have to battle misinformation, upfront when possible. And people have warned you about this too! You're lucky there are media outlets who responsibly explained the nuance for you.
You don't have to be a fortune teller to tell that many non-programmers would misinterpret the news out of context, and yet you left the context buried in a commit message. Get off the high horse.
@mks_h How did they not make it clear in the blog post that announced it?
What do you think should they do different?
@mks_h @GTK The post in the GTK Development Blog stated,
"The X11 and Broadway backends have been deprecated, as a clear signal that we intend to remove them in the GTK 5. In the meantime, they continue to be available"
It is a reasonable assumption that people reading the development blog have a rough understanding of the major gtk release cycle(aka ~10 years) with gtk4 in 2020
It could probably have been made clearer, but that blog probably wasn't the place to describe the gtk release cycle
@mks_h Let's be honest: if there were the most detailed information, people would still share false information from some clickbait they saw in a thumbnail or from some random blog.
People won't want to listen because they're already willing to find any tiny detail to justify the hate.
@mks_h the issue is that "news" outlets monitor the issue tracker, and they link specific merge requests; we don't do communication management on the commit logs: we have a blog for that, which we used to explain what the deprecation means. This toot was in response to comments on social media from people who were misled.
Of course, it seems you are one of those people who enjoy ragging on the project whatever we do, so there's not much of a purpose in explaining things.
@GTK I actually don't enjoy doing that. Sorry, I guess I was too harsh in my comment. You did kind of communicate it, and of course you'd still receive enough misinformation from some bad actors whatever you did. I just wish you'd take this more seriously, and reassure people upfront. This would not eliminate misinformation, but it would make it more obvious and less effective. But I guess this isn't that big of a deal in the end. Again, sorry for being too harsh.
@GTK will X11 still be supported in gtk5? because I don't think I'm moving off of X11 anytime soon on my desktop, tbh
@solonovamax@tech.lgbt @GTK@floss.social Not from the looks of it, no.
The X11 and Broadway backends have been deprecated, as a clear signal that we intend to remove them in the GTK 5.(From: https://blog.gtk.org/2025/02/01/whats-new-in-gtk-winter-2025-edition/ under "Spring Cleaning")
@GTK and by that point i pray that wayland will have feature parity with x11 (in terms of a users use cases) but i get the feeling that we will still be missing proper support for something like graphics tablets or whatever
but good to know that backwards compatibility will be a thing for the forseeable future.
@GTK Maybe by 2045 we can then get some cool modern features such as seamless network transparency and modularity where you can swap out the window manager without restarting applications.
