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Due to "anti-features" introduced unilaterally by some people from FDroid community, it is not possible to find Organic Maps using the search in FDroid client without tinkering with its settings first: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/-/issues/3347
By default, it is possible to find apps with ads, with tracking, with non-free network services, dependencies and assets, apps without source code and with known vulnerabilities. But it is not possible to find Organic Maps, an open-source app without ads and tracking.
@organicmaps yes, our communication about this change was not ideal.
We tried to cover it in https://f-droid.org/2024/07/25/twif.html and https://f-droid.org/2024/04/04/twif.html, but apparently it wasn't read by everybody (surprise, surprise 
).
Unfortunately, we didn't find any good technical solution to enable the new Anti-Feature automatically (but only for those, who didn't change their AFs manually).
Moreover, this new AF was designed to clearly differentiate, that apps like OM are NOT NonFreeNet, but only TetheredNet.
@fdroidorg @organicmaps I'm not seeing tethered net as a separate option in the anti features setting, and organic maps only shows up when I allow "others", which is slightly concerning. I'm using fdroid basic 1.20.
@haskman @fdroidorg @organicmaps
https://f-droid.org/2024/07/25/twif.html
>The new added TetheredNet is counted as Other Anti-features which is disabled by default.
Same happened to me with Wikipedia. I had to try and check several options until I realised that it was “Others” in order to find it, and thought “Others? Well, that’s weird”.
Maybe the new “Tethered Network Services” option should be out there below or above the “Non-Free Network Services”, instead of grouped into the ambiguous “Others” group? 
@haskman @fdroidorg @organicmaps
Checking “Other Anti-features” feels like “Bring it on, let’s open the gates of Hell”. 
@tagomago @haskman @organicmaps Repositories can add their own AFs, and "Other" is designed for them, whatever it is added in the future. F-Droid Client can't predict the future, hence this umbrella "AF" will contain them all.
@fdroidorg @haskman @organicmaps
I see. Given this newly devised anti-feature category, are you planning to display it on the list of categories, along with the other twelve, on the next F-Droid release? I feel people would be interested in allowing it, while keeping “Other Anti-features” unchecked...
@haskman @fdroidorg @organicmaps same here as well. Those flags are not clear.
@piggo @fdroidorg @organicmaps @PhotonQyv Its not an anti-feature to you because your in a place of relative comfort, but the inability of someone being able to host their own map data and have the app download from that could be important to, say, people in conflict zones without persistant internet.
@Baggypants @piggo @fdroidorg @PhotonQyv That doesn’t make much sense with OM, because map data format is changed with almost every app update, so generated maps are tightly bound to the specific app version (and may crash otherwise). Generating map data is a very complex, time-consuming, and expensive process.
@organicmaps @fdroidorg I'm not saying you shouldn't do that but you're not thinking from the point of view of the user. It's a restriction they are entitled to know up front, it could be misused to track people with little effort, or disrupt them in the long term.
@organicmaps @fdroidorg
It doesn't matter a damn if you say "Well we wont do that" because you can't guarentee you wont be hacked, or enforced by law, and the user wouldn't be any wiser. You are focussed on features and functionality, which is fine, but F-Droid are focused on freedoms. Don't assume they have the same mission as you. As a paranoid person I can build and host my own maps if I use Navit, without having to rebuild anything.
@Baggypants @fdroidorg Please try to do it for OM and share your experience with others.
@organicmaps @fdroidorg You know you can fork F-Droid? It's open source. You can mirror their build server and create a repo, build all the apps F-Droid do and in doing so reemove any or all anti-features you care to. If you did this you might understand what a fucking stupid idea yours is to ask me to rebuild your app. If I did that it wouldn't be "Organic Maps". I'd need to distribute it under a different appid and change the name to avoid a trademark dispute.
@Baggypants @fdroidorg it is inappropriate to confuse our users by wrong labeling or by hiding OM in search in any third party repositories. We got questions and reports from our users, not someone else. And instead of focusing on the development, we should react.
@Baggypants @piggo @fdroidorg @PhotonQyv
In your example, if someone needs to generate maps locally and distribute them without the internet, then making a local build of OM with custom URLs and a specific version of map data bound to it is way better and more reliable solution.
@organicmaps @fdroidorg
"It's open source, you can fork it" is a great freedom and shouldn't be overlooked, I am thankful for it. But ultimately it is irrelevent to this discussion which is "How should the app be categorized as the developers intended it to be distributed"
@piggo @organicmaps @PhotonQyv@strangeobject.space True, then again this is not a secret or something new, no need to hide it, right? This matters though if one wants to understand how an app can be used, what freedoms does it grant or fence, eg. siloed app vs federated.
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@fdroidorg @piggo @organicmaps @PhotonQyv
I totally agree with your reason for splitting the anti feature into two things, but there are two problems with the way this has been done:
1. It's not clear that the name "tethered network" is actually more freedom respecting, and
2. Something using an open network service should absolutely not be hidden by default, especially when much more proprietary anti-features aren't. That goes against the whole point of #FDroid to promote open alternatives.
@fdroidorg @organicmaps This is intended as constructive criticism.
I think @ck and @cy8aer have a point. For instance, Libretrack has the non-free network tag. I gather this is because the app talks to UPS servers etc.? But how else is it supposed to get the info about the package? Telepathy?
And if that's not the reason, the fact that I have to wonder, search through gitlab, read the code or do some mind reading shows that the "network" anti-features are now mostly confusing to users.
@fdroidorg @organicmaps please reconsider how to handle anti-features. They're super hostile to developers. And also they are very difficult to understand for most users. Using terms like NonFreeNet, TetheredNet.... c'mon nobody's gonna understand those therms with lengthy explanations.
@fdroidorg @organicmaps
Inform users about AF in search results - Yes.
Hide apps in search results - No.
I think we're adults and can make informed decisions ourselves which app to download.
Today I spent 15 minutes tinkering with AF options, refreshing search etc. and nothing. After 10 tries, OM suddenly appeared.
Not the optimal user experience.
@fdroidorg @organicmaps To be perfectly honest, I've read both of these blog posts several times now and I'm still not entirely sure what it means in practice... The example with the parcel tracking in this thread was not something I had considered at all.
The term "anti-feature" has always struck me as very peculiar. Besides, in an app store I would expect to get _search results_. If I then see an interesting app I'll comb through the specific page to find what I need to know in regards to features, permissions, cookies etc. etc.If you're going to heavily filter search results for me straight away there should be a banner of some sort clearly stating that. _Especially_ in an alternative app store where you very often will search for an app that's not available anywhere else than the Play Store. An empty result page is already 90% of the time spent in the F-Droid app for me at least. It does seem a bit counterintuitive to also filter out apps that actually are available _by default_ then...
Besides, how many F-Droid users know you even have a blog? I first noticed that when I decided to follow you here on Mastodon (which itself was a spur of the moment idea)...
