@michel_slm I keep forgetting how many people are

Just Like, OK 👍

about all this. :(

Which data will be shared? And I'm reading the updated privacy policy; I can't find anything which says it will make the facebook-part mandatory.

@loke @michel_slm
Outside of the IT and CS realm hardly anyone cares. They all just want a something which they can use to contact other for personal and work purposes. The main reason behind one using a messenger is always that all of their friends and everyone is also doing so. Signal would be of no use if I have no one to talk to there.

@michel_slm not many, most wont even read it and discard it as an update message within a micro second, especially because people got desensitized through GDPR banners and other "irrelevant nonsense".

Last time I tried signal it wasn't even syncing across devices within hours sometimes, couldnt decrypt messages often and more, it's the same reason people stay with discord rather than use matrix and would buy the facebook VR headset:

friction either in form of money or time wasted on things that are the defacto standard for messaging experiences but are missing in alternatives, on top of it all many countries exclusively use whatsapp for ISP support and what not, switching to signal would just inconvenience yourself and anybody else.

The signal issues probably changed by now (I hope?!), except for them still requiring your phone number for antique reasons last time I checked fairly recently.

Of course there's also the "I've got nothing to hide" crowd, which can't be argued with.

The closest alternative people have is telegram usability and friction free wise (they roll their own crypto yada yada, I know), but then again, if you rely on whatsapp, you wont be changing.

@toyha agreed Telegram is better usability wise. I never encountered the Signal issues you mentioned though, at least not recently. So a WA to Signal transition is mostly a plus (except for the adoption issue). WA needs your phone number anyway. And Signal Desktop is way more usable than WA for Web.

Hoping Matrix would fix some of their UX issues and get more clients with E2EE support. Discord is nice but too closed

@michel_slm Oh yeah totally, I didn't say WA didn't need a phone number, that was just a driveby note of signal failing privacy too in a sense, e.g. signal forks did it day 0 to replace your phone number with secure IDs, yet signal insiders (if they are anyway, can't verify), told me they plan to add that as a feature in Q3/Q4 of '21 which is already insanely late for what is praised as a privacy messenger in all common mouths.

Matrix for the normal use has gotten a lot better since the last time I tried it, e.g. it doesnt suddenly give you a list in your dashboard of all deleted channels or all channels you're in, thanks to their change of "fake" communities and some other design changes.

Matrix also is teasting real communities alike to discords "server" feature, which imho is one of the things preventing me from moving some discord communities over.

Matrix also fails largely due to hosted servers being either run by odd people that fuck around in the database to abuse their power (e.g. admin themselves in communities, because those are centralized) or horribly slow to a point I just can't recommend a homeserver to any newcomers without knowing theyll ask me the next day why their messages dont send or take literally 30 seconds or why they dont receive some messages but others do and why cant they decrypt some messages from matrix.org homeserver.

Discord mostly is questionable due to their moderators banning quite easily anybody and their servers, thats the most concern most people face now imho

I'm glad on your note though that signal fixed the bugs I encountered, positive change alike to what matrix went through!

@michel_slm @claudius to be honest: I doubt this will make any significant dent. People don’t read TOS and the alert is way to vague to be alerting, pun intended. 😕

@michel_slm I hope not a single one as it is the same centralized nonsense

@fence @michel_slm Yeah, it's annoying how many people keep suggesting 'just another company' like Signal. A decentralised option like #matrix should be the suggestion.

@neil @fence agreed to both. the solution should be an open protocol.

Signal is less bad -- the server and client are both open source - but (a) no federation, and (b) you don't even have an easy way to switch to a different server without compiling a custom client... oh and (c) less clear revenue model compared to Matrix (Element has a paid tier).

Signal just started soliciting donation IIRC? So mostly Signal and Telegram are at the whims of rich white dudes right now.

@michel_slm @fence

Yep, but both Telegram and Sigal are just another walled garden despite the Signal protocol being open (i.e.I can't write something to talk to Signal users without them allowing me some sort of gateway in - i.e. making a Signal account).

With #Matrix, you can use their open protocol to directly communicate with existing users.

I think the term 'open protocol' is being misused/misunderstood by many people both in IT and outwith.

@neil @fence yeah, I'm probably using the wrong term there, sorry. I see Matrix (and ActivityPub but that's a different use cases) as open standards so you can have competing implementations.

Matrix's protocol is open in the way I think you intend (I sense that's the correct usage too) in that it's designed to allow bridging with other protocols.

And agreed, a lot of the multi-protocol communities I see involve Matrix being bridged to IRC, Discord and Telegram.

The IRC integration is particularly smooth to the point that Mozilla and KDE (and soon Fedora) have migrated. In Fedora's usecase IRC users will not notice a difference (unless someone on Matrix sends a multi-line message or edits, I guess)


@michel_slm it’s crazy right?
i submitted a PR yesterday and jordan told me two wait a week or two because they’re going to be busy 😂

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