@alcinnz

The irony of this article using Medium and Scribe is not lost on me :)

@humanetech @alcinnz having a hard time finding words but i continue to rank the idea of "intent" as extremely important/core in information systems & society. hypothesis's/plans giving way to evidence/actualization.

mark burgess's "promise theory" is all about intent / fulfillment.

i also just think of the movie Pi. 4:20, restate my intents.

@humanetech @alcinnz i think it's so elevated for people to be able to properly write down intents/desires.

long dug Doc Searls & these ideas of vendor-relationship-management, of users being the ones needing tools, to interact with vendors, not the other way around. that's the real seat of power, the real extension/actualization of human will. good links all. thanks.

@jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

Thanks for your ref to Burgess! The intentcasting thing reminded me of an initiative I was discussing some time ago with its creator (and for application on the fedi).

offerbots.org

Esp. the Problem side has an interesting description of aggregators, while the Solution side isn't there yet or impractible as described there.

@humanetech @alcinnz i think a good bit about disaggregated marketplaces, where supply/demand side each ought be able to make their offer/requests available. getting that information shared out, then giving each other the tools to match/search the other is a very high paradigmatic desire.

@humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz we’re building a tool that helps people manage relationships in line with what Doc described. We’re talking to vendors because “intentcasting” is a two-sided problem. I’m not very optimistic there. Even though we’re working with open schemas, vendors have to go through a lot of pain to adopt a solution that essentially de-leverages their position. Adoption by small/medium business is hard because tech resources are scarce.

@jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz we need a perfect tech-savvy business vertical with enough small/medium businesses that see opportunity to disrupt the market power held by dominant brands. They might gamble on adopting this intentcasting early.

The truth is Doc’s ideas have been around for 15 years. Even on ProjectVRM’s wiki in don’t see a project that has taken a real run at building a solution for both sides.

These opportunity bots are cool though, @humanetech.

@schmudde @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

Oh, hugely interested. Do you have some material to read more?

Isn't the deleveraging similar to what vendors have to 'give up' when they engage in ethical advertising, like #ReadTheDocs do? I.e. give up on some data collection and targeting. See:

community.humanetech.com/t/the

It is often those old ideas that are still valid, but were 'disrupted' before because there was more profit in pushed ads.

SMB's are good audience, and local scales to bootstrap.

@humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz Doc’s 2012 book lays it all out: openlibrary.org/books/OL251630.

Large businesses essentially give up their captive audience in exchange for higher quality data. Doc argues that this is more valuable. But there isn’t any empirical evidence. I think this is different than the Ethical Advertising argument made in the thread you shared.

@humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz So we’re a registered Public Benefit Corporation (yorba.co). We’d love to work with the myriad of likeminded SMBs that are also registered as PBCs. But they need *a lot* of education and technical help. I can imagine a vertical like allocating server resources as a better place to start. They can’t compete with AWS on raw compute, but they could respond to individual intentions cast. Then go from there.

@schmudde @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

It's a great mission, huge scope. We don't have PCB's like that in Netherlands. Though we have #PostGrowth ventures like RadicallyOpenSecurity.com where all revenue goes to #NonProfits, in this case #NLnet.

You may like what @m3me is working on with tethix.co a cooperative dedicated to education, and esp. 'Applied #Ethics' to verifiably prove that a business adheres to its stated values and principles, hence warrants ones #Trust.

Nice book!

@humanetech @schmudde @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz @m3me

bonfirenetworks.org/extensions has Intents up and running in their ActivityPub implementation.

There's also researchstudio-sat.github.io/w which uses the same vocabulary as Bonfire and may at some stage be able to share intents.

@bhaugen Thanks for pointing me towards @bonfire. I'm always looking for more implementations of casting intention. Also happy to be an early adopter!

@schmudde @bhaugen @bonfire

Yes, #bonfire is hugely inspiring in the way it is set up and operates.

Though I find there's gains to be made still in community-building and documentation, but maybe I missed obvious places where these exist.

@schmudde @bhaugen @bonfire

hey, @humanetech we're working on adding docs and open the doors to more co-design and feedback sessions with communities, do you think there's some content/materials that would help more than other and we should prioritize?

@bernini

Great to hear, Ivan! I'd be happy to provide feedback and my 2 cts on anything related to this.

Maybe a good place to start might be the #Bonfire category on #SocialHub community forum that is thus far unused. Would be a great way to get other fedi devs in the loop, while discussing how to organize.

socialhub.activitypub.rocks/c/

Another place may be #Lemmy in #FediverseFutures: lemmy.ml/c/fediversefutures

And I'll help spread msgs on #Fediverse 🤗

@schmudde @bhaugen @bonfire

@humanetech @bernini @schmudde @bhaugen
Thanks a lot! Ill collect some materials worth to share and publish over the next week on socialhub and continue from there :)

@humanetech Indeed, the work by @m3me looks interesting. I look forward to seeing how it develops. Thanks for the tip!

@schmudde @humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

I would like to chime in but I do not understand the following sentence:

> They can’t compete with AWS on raw compute

Vertical or horizontal compute? Maybe both? But I am not sure how it relates with the rest of the thread.

@amirouche @humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz I was speculating on which businesses might be good early adopters for intention casting. Perhaps small/medium businesses that provide compute/cloud/hosting needs…

@schmudde

On local scales it would work well. Imagine firing your shopping list to the system and after some selection it gave you an OSM route through town to collect.

But other than that on the internet I think that market you mention is a real good one. Given the right audience they would go out of their way to find proper alternatives to the AWS'es in this world.

@amirouche @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

@schmudde

I really like the concept behind #Murmurations protocol and am collecting ideas for it. It has similarities to this and could be applied by vendors to advertise their warez for federated aggregation and decoupled from potential buyers making offers.

socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/

@amirouche @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

@humanetech @amirouche @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz looks like #Murmurations might help solve the problem that the folks at mysilio.garden are having with Solid. The fundamental problem with federated data store is that people can’t remember which data is in which Pod. Having a single index for your data store (or a shared data store in the case of Murmurations) could be one approach. Interesting stuff.

@schmudde

Mysterious club.. do they have a presence somewhere?

I brought the #Murmurations topic to #SocialHub because it could benefit from federation to take away the need for a centralized index server. So you get kind of distributed pub/sub based on murmuration profiles.

Btw I also described an application for #Solid FAQ's on their community forum in reaction to TBL posting (who never responded afterwards, btw)

forum.solidproject.org/t/ideas

@amirouche @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

@humanetech Huh - that's a really cool application of Solid, and a great way to dog food. Seems that Solid projects have trouble getting footing without TBL's attention?

The Mysilio folks do have a Discord. I ended up spending some time with them as part of their Digital Garden Club. Here's the invite for last weeks' meeting: eventbrite.com/e/mysilio-digit.

Oh and I wrote up a summary/counterpoint to Doc's Intention Economy work. Prompted by our conversation: schmud.de/books/intention-econ

@schmudde I expressed my take on Solid's approach to come to widespread adoption on their forum, and have some real question marks to it. But idk, it may be appropriate given the stage of development they're at.

Ahh, Mysilio --> Undergarden. Know about the latter. Very interesting stuff.

Agree your counterpoint and liked how you introduced the concept. Good writing! Think there's nothing wrong with utopic vision (but as 'Dreams' providing mere direction) as long as realistic path is followed.

@humanetech @amirouche are openEngiadina and Dream related? There seems to be some overlap. Also noting the relationship to NGI.... Are the various NGI #LinkedData initiatives chronicled in some central place?

@schmudde @amirouche

I think related in the sense that DREAM stands on its own and that #openEngiadina intends to apply the results that come from the initiative. It may be a reference implementation, idk.

But @pukkamustard is probably the best person to give you an answer as to the nature of the relationship.

@schmudde @amirouche @pukkamustard

Most of the #NGI projects that relate to #LinkedData and #ActivityPub were funded by @NGIZero Discovery grants, facilitated by #NLnet.

Here's a list of projects:

nlnet.nl/project/current.html

@schmudde

I read through the following page openlibrary.org/books/OL251630

I understand better how it relates to hosting providers;

Most needs are covered by stuff; nowadays a computer-phone can host a website, and the intent of their user.

Whether they advertise the willing-ness to exchange money for material or non-material goods. This convo is also related to "what is ".

@humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

@schmudde @humanetech @jauntywunderkind420 @alcinnz

The problem at this time is not that companies do not know what users want; it is more like companies go in the opposite direction.

@amirouche I am unfamiliar with Dream. Are there any applications built yet? I'm especially curious about how they envision "economies."

Speaking of - I wrote a quick review of the Intention Economy that highlights some of the more important parts missed by the summary you read. Also includes some of my skepticism. schmud.de/books/intention-econ

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