Maybe it's just because this is where my interest lies, but reading a few takes on how to Fix The Web yesterday I really think a major issue are the discovery hueristics we use. Their incomprehensibility and shallowness promotes the bad and buries the good.
There's PLENTY of good links! Otherwise I'd be wanting to tear The Web down rather than just JS...
I created Odysseus to explore some partial solutions, but I'm keen to see others address the problem from a different angle! Links? Advice?
@alcinnz My two strategies are 1) to use DuckDuckGo and then dig through layers of intermediate sites and 2) to ask fedi. Sometimes asking fedi devolves into just guessing wildly until people get irritated and send me links.
At the time, I recommended that a great way to get information on a topic of interest was to set up a Web page devoted to the topic, and invite contributions. Others interested in the subject find you, and share what they know that you don't already have curated.
It may sound too long game to a contemporary ear, but it is a strategy I'd still recommend.
@alexbuzzbee @alcinnz Per @68km, one could imagine a federated network of such curated subject pages, assembled along the idioms of something like gopher, where each curation of information on a topic would also provide links to pages on related subjects, curated by those interested in learning through contributions from others more about their own, adjacent, questions.
On adding or editing a page with newly contributed links and other source materials on your own instance of the system, it would find similar pages across the peer network and auto-populate a sidebar of apropos in-network links for that page.
@alcinnz honestly, I've been thinking lately about how nice it would be to have a search directory like Yahoo again. Not at all a practical solution, and a modern implementation would basically be de.licio.us
but still, I wanna at least have a personal multi-layered directory with brief abstracts for the pages that I note down, and if enough people did that and federated it? idk, it'd be a neat project at least
@68km Yeah, it would be neat!
Maybe one way to start is to find people publishing collections of links on a particular topic (like I'm, slowly, reviewing DRM-free shows!) and create page(s) linking to them?
At the very least that should get your idea started...
@alcinnz Adrian, you've not the nail on the head, both in terms of problem and solution. Trusted curation/recommendation has always been the human way to select for the good and filter out the bad. So IMO that's what we need to foster and build into our platforms (federated and p2p).
Advertising & social media algos are designed to prioritise profit, and so circumvent and undermine what's good and promote what's bad where that helps profit, leading harmful heuristics.
@alcinnz One stop gap solution I find works pretty good is using millionshort to take out all the big websites from google search.
I mean google searching isn't the answer, but millionshort at least makes google search moderately more useful.
One of the things I think about is that I find twitter and the fediverse extremely useful for finding valuable information precisely because information isn't well sorted.
I follow piles of scientists and academics and generally interesting people on twitter because while they probably will talk about what they specifically are experts in most of the time, people also tend to talk about subjects in their periphery on twitter.
I think there is something to knowledge networks full of experts on topics that don't hyperfocus on what they are experts on.
If I find some crawfish biologist, chances are they are kind of an interesting person and honestly I am as interested to have a conversation with them about the other things they are interested as I am about hearing them talk about crawfish.
I find when I build networks like this I find myself very quickly discovering interesting resources.
So I guess what I am trying to say is the process of trying to sort conversations into subjects and experts on the same subject into groups has uses, but I also think networks that encourage people to define themselves and the conversations they have in a mixed up, scattershot way actually ends up creating a far more information rich system than a well sorted one does.
At least that is my experience!
@alcinnz I still only have a vague idea of how the #SemanticWeb is meant to work, but that could be part of the solution. At least part of what's allowed platforms to overtake protocols is their ability to recommend related stuff. As I understand it, semantic web is about defining protocols for that.
@strypey Yeah, I think the Semantic Web is very useful for this!
I've already implemented a discovery mechanism which tracks encountered links to display as "personalized recommendations", which is working very well for me without any needing any data gathered by a service like Pocket.
Also it could aid gathering more interesting metadata on which to search, though that would always need to be curated to be useful.
@alcinnz have you looked at some of the new #ActivityPub projects related to the semantic web?
@strypey Can't say I'm all that convinced by the SoLiD efforts, so no. It hasn't even crossed my radar.
Reading that page, it mostly sounds like fierce argument I don't feel confident to comment on.
I have been cross-posting from that thread to the #solid forum in hopes to trigger more cooperation.
I have concerns about how Solid core team (TBL, Inrupt et al) is handling things, and apparently there's tension/frustration in the community too about this.
Some earlier stuff I posted:
And on their (confusing) positioning:
The biggest problem imho is that core team are navel-gazing, prefering to work in closed group. They are not building community.
Just created one more post in reaction to TBL addressing
> The biggest problem imho..
@alcinnz just ignore @Hamishcampbell, his tales about a "geek problem" are, to paraphrase the bard, full of sound and fury,
signifying nothing. Eg:
@alcinnz you’re writing a new browser engine? I would love to see it and I will use it every single day
@mattl Yes, but Odysseus isn't it (that's built on WebKitGTK) and I don't have anything interactive yet.
I'm working on "Rhapsode" (means performer of epic poems in ancient greek) which communicates via voice I/O, and I'm planning "Hephaestus" (named for the creepy space station Wolf359 is set on, and the Greek fire/blacksmith god) targetting smart TVs.
I like targetting unusual devices to show what we lost in the headfirst dive into webapps, and to encourage accessability...
@alcinnz I find a lot good links using twitter’s search and the “people you follow” filter.
When I learn of a new interesting name or topic that I feel has an affinity with my twitter friends, I do a search, and often find lots of good links and discussions. Requires finding the right people tho.
@alcinnz Belatedly, all I can offer at the moment is a recent opinion piece: https://felix.plesoianu.ro/blog/stop-blaming-the-web.html
I fnd that good stuff is found through word of mouth with aquanitances
personal knowledge beats search engines 10 to 1
I also think that human curated hierarchies of categories, each category containing a bunch of links were a good thing
Maybe domain search engines too
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