"When you make programming skills the core component of any web role then you've made the web into a programmers playground. This is when you start seeing feature factories, whines of "why can't those users upgrade?", and [derision of soft skills like design].

Picking up a tremendous vibe of "well how else are we supposed to build complex apps?" when *no one is talking about this*. The argument is about raising the baseline of making *anything* for the web so high that it excludes people."

I must say I think I have strong understanding of HTML/CSS, and I'm frequently disgusted by how unmaintainable most people's webcode is. Most webdevs seem to use classes to define their own style-based markup languages, ignoring most of the conveniences those languages provide.

Excluding non-developers in the process.

@alcinnz I recently got fired because I couldn’t stop asking “Why? Who is this for? Does it improve the experience?”

The answer is always “fuck users get money”

@alcinnz Addendum: The stakes aren’t always dire but my particular case regards quasi-medical advice given directly to users.

@alcinnz If you try to build something as a learning exercise in your own free time with no background in tech and a focus on writing etc. you soon find out who in the community thinks you have no business to be there. Relatively accessible tools are seen by some as proof of incompetence and amateurism in programming as evidence for the prosecution that you could have nothing to say by using them. There is a residual technocracy even in FOSS that precludes wider uptake.


i guess it depends on the org, but ime its the marketing people and executives that are pushing for more complex applications with more features and less attention to a11y

@xj9 When I was working for work, they did seem to be the ones choosing to make the web into a programmer's playground too.

That seems to be what really makes it difficult for us to stop.

@alcinnz tbh tbh there are few things I would call a "programmer's playground" less than modern webtech; it's an ocean of garbage that only works for a narrow section of developers

@aeonofdiscord Yeah, the excitement over JavaScript does feel like there's bit of naivity to it.

Like they're saying "wow! You can do anything with JavaScript" and I'm like "well duh! It's Turing Complete, and that's actually not much of an accomplishment."

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